Karen Hanover Commercial Short Sale Course Scam – YOU GOT SUCKERED
By Duncan Wierman on Jun 10, 2010 in Duncan's Opinion, In the News
I hate to say it, but I told you so. This below email just came in from one of my students who did some further investigations:
His Complete Email to Me..
Hi Duncan,
I saw on your blog that you were not supporting Karen Hanover's launch and the overall lack of due diligence. Ha. A couple of months ago I did some due diligence on her after hearing her speak at a conference here in San Diego in January. Your intuition was dead-on.
The "associations" Karen Hanover touts as being a member of CCREA NAIA (and the self storage one SSEI?) are all her own creation. In February she had the balls to create a press release to tout how the CCREA had awarded her real estate course its #1 ranking! I love tenacity and perseverance, but fraud is disgusting and seeing how there are so many dubious characters in this business, it just bugs me.
Anyway I sent an email to Sperry Van Ness's Human Resources department and got back the enclosed email. According to SVN she has never worked there and their attorneys are looking into it. ))) I have not called Marcus & Millichap.
Your points on the blog are so well taken. Everybody signs up and does the birddog routine but the gurus can't or don't want to do all the deals and thus cherry-pick the list. Rick Wheat who with Jeff Kaller are doing their scandalous bird dog system told me back in 2005 when he was Ron Legrand's acquisition head that in that year they looked at over 1100 deals submission and actually closed on 14. So you would have to submit 80 deals of average quality before expecting to do one. I don't think the normal man on the street has put this math together, but you did in your blog and I thank you for getting the word out to the masses.
EXPOSED
Next time you get emails about a new course from a Real Estate Guru, do some digging first. Don't believe everything you hear. YOU BEEN HAD! I hope you can get your money back. Good Luck
Update 13 June 2010:
Seems I upset the apple cart! IF I have stated any incorrect information I will publicly state I was wrong on my blog and apologize here. At this time, I have not received any evidence to the contrary. I am now being threatened by a lawsuit because I provide a medium for people to feedback about the course. The site remains open for rebuttal and other points of view.
I received the following text messages from Karen Hanover asking me to remove the post. What an un-American thing to do! What happened to freedom of speech?
HERE COME THE THREATS.........
Notice now Karen Hanover is trying to turn this around ? She is implying that she is going to file a complaint against me for "Annoying Text Messages" to her, when in fact I was only responding to her UNAUTHORIZED TEXT to me . I never gave her my number. She quotes CA Penal Code which I should now to use to file a complaint against her!
How childish is this woman? Is this who you want to do business with ? I might also throw in for good measure....
She stated to everyone in her LAUNCH WEBINAR, and again to everyone who bought her course that she would partner with you and FUND YOUR DEALS. Then when it came time to ask for funding (by one of my students), she said NO, you have to QUALIFY ! That is NOT partnering ! That is called a LOAN. One more LIE from her .......
Did a background check from public sources of information - Not one commercial deal shows up, BUT 7 foreclosures, and a bunch of tax liens against her...
DOWNLOAD Pages from Karen Hannover Public Knowledge Background Check
To think that she sold 2.2 Million dollars of coaching at her event, and she doesn't have one of her own success stories.. ??? WT ?
Check out my other post about how she put the scam together, AND now she is bragging about going on vacation directly after her bootcamp, leaving her new students to fend for them selves....
Read about the Karen Hanover Commercial Goldrush Coaching Scam Reviewed
UPDATE 8 AUGUST 2010
In case you are interested to know.
To be a CCIM candidate, it doesn't take anything but a smallish check (about $500, for the intro 100 course) to start the CCIM program and become a "candidate". To get the CCIM pin is a different animal entirely. You have to pass the five week long courses, pass the comprehensive five hour exam (given twice a year), document your deal history - $10M generally, and produce a portfolio documenting your deals with canceled checks to verify payment (it's THAT sticky). I have colleagues who have notarized letters from previous employers documenting their experience, inspection deal volume and income with pay stubs/copies of checks. They had to dredge up dozens of canceled check images from their business. They stated becoming a CCIM was very intense.
Why would people trust 30K in coaching to someone who does not have real qualifications or even pass the industry standard test is beyond me.
Here is a link to Karen Bogus Press Release about her qualification, and also a slide in her powerpoint how she is representing herself fraudulently.
Karen Hannover Bogus Award Announcement on PRWeb
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2010/02/prweb3614034.htm
What a joke! - Click on the image to see it LARGE
FALSE CLAIMS ABOUT LICENSED AGENT WITH BOTH COMPANIES
UPDATED 10-11-10 - click on image to see full size
Karen Hanover Exposed - Official
PLEASE BE SURE TO LEAVE YOUR COMMENTS BELOW:
loading...
Get My Free 14 Day E-Course!
June 10th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
Gotta love it. Sure, yes, commercial RE is heading for the tank, but bird dogging for stuff is NOT the way to go.
I guess it’s easier to see now where the money came from for her plastic surgery…
BTW, does anyone use prweb for stuff aside from maybe a bit of Google power? I just read that so-called “press release” and here’s the last part:
For additional information on the news that is the subject of this release contact Suzanne Bennett below.
About Certified Commercial Real Estate Advisory Board (CCREA):
The Certified Commercial Real Estate Advisory Board is a nationally recognized organization responsible for providing education and certification for professionals in commercial real estate. Requiring over 500 hours of stringent, graduate level curriculum, the CCREA designation is known in the industry as the most prestigious credential for commercial real estate professionals, often cited as the equivalent of a PhD in commercial real estate.
Contact:
Michael Drapeau, COO
CommercialInvestmentEducation.com (Links take you to Karen Course .. LOL )
877-877-0987
CommercialInvestmentEducation.com
M_drapeau(at)yahoo(dot)com
ummmm. OK. So how do we contact Suzanne? Through Michael? The website? Karen? Ouch.
June 10th, 2010 at 6:01 pm
I will also add now. Maybe a call into M&M is warranted. My searches turn up nothing linked to it (aside from all her Google-indexed articles/PR’s) and I just checked the site and offices…nothing turning up there either.
June 13th, 2010 at 1:41 am
Hahahahaha.
Ron LeGrand’s properties all went into foreclosure after he bankrupted them so he could screw his student investors who investied into this 30mm private placement (aka Ponzi Scheme) and is now being investigated by the SEC.
Rick Wheat has never closed a deal in his life and is was actually convicted of defrauding an investor.
Kahler should know better that there is no such thing as a commercial short sale and should stick to his residential stuff. He’s never done a Commercial deal either.
June 13th, 2010 at 9:22 am
Hello Danielle
Thank you for your comments. I do find it however odd, that you make the statement ” there is no such thing as a commercial short sale” yet in your email address reply, it actually takes you to DC Fawcett’s short sale course sales page ( who is partners with Karen Hannover )
Maybe you would like to explain the statement coming from DC then who promoted Karen, to now saying there is NO SUCH THING?
Duncan
June 16th, 2010 at 9:37 am
Interesting. Why would the contact, Maria Dopp, who is in the Human Resources Dept. at SVN say, “Yeah, this Hanover lady is on our radar and our attorneys are about to act.”. I don’t think you’d refer it to your attorneys if you weren’t pretty certain there was a big problem going on. Even if the CEO claims she worked there in some consulting capacity that HR was not aware of she still is promoting these bogus “vanity press” real estate organizations, i.e., CCREA, SSEI and issuing worthless press releases with a bogus award. I wonder if any money is changing hands here behind the curtains? Wouldn’t put it past her. Also, I wonder if the CCREA “Advisory Board” will be issuing a press release that the CEO says ” Karen’s legit with SVN”. HAHA….
June 18th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
Duncan this is too funny. I have been laughing all afternoon. Seriously I did my own research several months ago, found the same as above, but just informed only one person who needed to know.
And I myself have experienced the same type of “no fault here” reactions. I find it amazing how people can blame everyone else for actions they take or not.
Thanks for a good laugh.
K
June 27th, 2010 at 9:57 am
I have no business relationship with Karen other than I recommend her free pdf on commercial short sales on my site. It is very good introductory information. People should try to get a copy irregardless of the validity of her credentials. As for partnering with her, as with any course that you buy if the main reason is to partner with a guru think twice. National product generators usually have a lot more deals submitted to them than they could possibly do. Look for local alternatives for partners. If a person has less than 100 students you have a much better shot.
June 27th, 2010 at 10:04 am
The introductory Pdf is not revolutionary. I felt it re-hashed information. Even her last video training was almost verbatim of Terry Hales video?
Why would any one want to partner with her if she does not have the credentials?
June 27th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
@Duncan Wierman
Makes it hard for people to follow a conversation when you reply to my comment but don’t approve it first. I’ve heard Terry live but never got anything as good as that pdf from him. Doesn’t mean he didn’t write essentially the same thing first.
June 27th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
Your comment was approved first , then I replied immediately. Perhaps you received the emails in the wrong order?
Do you actually invest in commercial, or just promote internet marketing sites? All links in comments are no follow , so just posting to get link juice wont work.
Anyway, Now you know where Karen ripped off her information from. I am happy to quote other sources too.
June 27th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
Wasn’t going by email-just how it showed on this site. If you know of any good free information Terry has that is readily available I will be happy to recommend that.Especially as even though I liked Karen’s book the link I used to get it is down as like many gurus they did an initial close of their registration.
Although I am a real estate investor I partner with people who do the actual heavy lifting. I prefer to work with the sellers and let others handle the lenders and buyers on any type of short sale. I also partner with an investor who does master leases on mobile home parks.
June 29th, 2010 at 11:43 am
In my opinion I would rather someone follow:
1. Ray Alcorn
2. David Lindahl
3. Terry Hale / Jason Gilbert
4. Anyone Else..
June 29th, 2010 at 10:10 pm
Suzanne Bennett was never an employee this is a fictional person she asked Michael to make up for her. Karen Hanover works out of a rented home currently in foreclosure in Long Beach California. She is a liar, and a lesbian and I can attest to this. Karen has not filled a tax return in 5 years
Contact me for additional info @Matt
June 30th, 2010 at 1:43 am
@Alex thanks for adding additional info. The tax return bit is also pretty interesting and just adds to the story. Having a fake name on a PR makes more sense as well…I’ve seen that trick used before in sales.
It just continues to amaze me: if you do good, solid, reliable work you will be continually be rewarded.
Yes I know there’s the idea of “faking it until you make it” in the beginning at least, but writing fake PR’s, making up institutions, linking yourself to firms for clout that you were apparently never at…sheesh.
Good recommendations too on DW’s part. Lindahl is one of my absolute favorites. Maybe because he’s in my state too, but the course info. he puts out, his business, it’s all pretty darn solid…and I’ve been out there to see first hand.
Hopefully this blog post makes it toward the top as well…I just googled karen hanover (without quotes) for kicks…#3 was an old Bryan Ellis post stating a discontinuation of business with her. Someone though did karenhanoverscam.com & just laced it with keyword junk (wordpress site).
July 1st, 2010 at 2:08 pm
KAREN HANOVER IS NOTHING BUT A SCAM ARTIST. Her bootcamps offer some good content, but it is all a front to get you to sign up for her mentoring program — to the tune of $5,000 to $20,000. For the privilege of paying that much money you get NOTHING in return. She promises weekly phone calls, ‘special’ online content, free access to resources on her web site, monthly assignment topics, personal access to her and her coaches, etc. SHE DELIVERS NOTHING. She is a fraud, pure and simple.
July 4th, 2010 at 6:20 am
I cannot agree more for this post. I attended her bootcamp in Dallas in 2009, and I thought she was real deal. However, She NEVER followed through what she presented.
I signed up her coaching thing, and kept asking her the content she promised, but never delivered. I filed complaints to BBB and attorney general’s office as well as dispute with credit card company. I had all the things she prented and communication log to prove that she was such a scam. I was lucky enough to get my money back for her coaching thing. KH and her staffs never communicat fairly. Poeple, stay away from her!!!!! I wish I could know better finding the post like this earlier. I got my money back from coaching program, and only wish I also get my money back from bootcamp. I know that is a long shot, but I want people to be aware of this scam artist. It was such a hussle to fight back ang get my hard earned money! Sometimes it is hard to find the feedback on someone’s courses. My only hope is that people see this posts before it is too late!
July 4th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
When does Karen have time to do commercial deals? She’s too busy doing bootcamps….I hear she’s got one scheduled about every two weeks from now ’til the end of the year!! ‘Course I read in one of the forums that the 3 day event is 2 days of info and 1 of sales pitch for other programs. Give me a “do-ru” over a “gu-ru” any ol’ day
July 4th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
All I can say is Thank you for this blog!!! Finally someone speaking out about all these sketchy people and so many of these so called “REI gurus” are all backing up each others stuff!!
July 7th, 2010 at 10:44 pm
i was at the 2010 dallas bootcamp. $30k for the “fast track” Now she doesn’t call anyone back. She made her money, and now she’s off. DC Fawcett should be ashamed he connected up with her.
July 7th, 2010 at 10:56 pm
Yup. I knew it . She should be ashamed. This is her modus operandi. Yet she puts herself out there as an outstanding guru but its all a lie. This is why there are many gurus like myself who would never endorse her. The launch formula she used was solely to get false hype and pay for people to endorse her.